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[K-Mentalz]

My Idea:

As of recently, I have been studying a lot about Chaos Magick. As I was reading about servitors, I found out that when servitors are neglected or are of no more use to the magician,  they sometimes become rebellious. I even heard that the servitors may also harm their castor. In conclusion, they are not under the complete control of the magician. This problem induced an idea. To solve this control problem, a person could program an A.I. Construct that would cast a chosen set of sigils (created and chosen by the magician or psion) to cause the desired effect of the sigil to the magician or psion. For example, I would set my A.I. Construct to cast a sigil with the intention to make my day go well when the construct sees that my day isnt going well. Or cast a sigil that would bring me good luck for that day. Hopefully you can see where I am going with this.

My Theoretical Method:

The method for doing this would be to first create the sigils you wish for your construct to cast. Secondly, you would have to combine all of the sigils together. My theoretical method of doing this is to randomly draw all of the sigils spaced out on a sheet of paper, and then draw a line from one sigil to another (It's like playing connecting the dots.) You should have all of the sigils connected. Once this is done, erase all of the sigils (leave the lines.) Now, you have should have a zig-zag looking assortment of lines. This is what I call a "sigil-set" sigil. This sigil has all of the intentions of the sigils you have just created, and is what your construct will use to cast the sigils. You will want to charge this sigil like you would any other sigil.

Now form and program an A.I. Construct to do what you want it to do. As you are creating the construct, visualize the "sigil-set" sigil that you have just made and program to use this sigil. You may want to program the construct to cast cetain sigils only at the certain times and situations that they are needed in.

Once you finish programming the construct, you have completed the task of creating a controlled servitor. In all reality, the controlled servitor is basically a consruct that can cast sigils, but since its functioning like a servitor, I call it a controlled servitor.

Side-Note:

This method only works in theory. So, I don't know if this method works or not. I will be experimenting with this method. I will be posting my progress on here and on my website (http://www.wix.com/qwilson94/theexperimentalpsion#!) once I start experimenting. Any feedback, ideas, suggestions, and questions can be addressed on this post.

[Mech]

Finally an interesting topic. The only problem is the uncaused cause. What's keeping the AI construct and sigils from going rogue?

[K-Mentalz]

Well, one way would be to simply program it not to harm you, and to follow your every command. Being able to program the construct to do exactly what you want it to do or not to do is the main benefit of this method.

Edit: I forgot to ask, but could you explain how a sigil would go "rouge?"

[loganmaster123]

Why wouldn't you just program the servitor to not go rogue in the first place?

[K-Mentalz]

Why wouldn't you just program the servitor to not go rogue in the first place?

I thought that servitors were "independent thought-forms," meaning that they can pretty much do anything that they want in despite of their intended functions (after the magician stops using it for a while.)

[Shinichi]

Why wouldn't you just program the servitor to not go rogue in the first place?

I thought that servitors were "independent thought-forms," meaning that they can pretty much do anything that they want in despite of their intended functions (after the magician stops using it for a while.)

There are different kinds of servitors. I generally go by the "Unintellegient-Dependent" (something like a psi ball, just made to perform a mission or two and then be done), "Intellegient-Dependent" (intellegient, but relies on you for energy to function and fulfill its mission), "Unintellegient-Independent" (like a psi ball with an independent energy source) and finally "Intellegient-Independent," which is essentially what you are talking about.

It isn't a chaos magick explanation, but one of my favorite articles on Servitors is here:
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,10859.0.html

Also, if you've stopped using a servitor and won't use it anymore or for a while, its best to just destroy it. Especially if its intellegient and/or independent. If you made it once, you can make it again later.



~:Shin:~

[flamedancer]

Why wouldn't you just program the servitor to not go rogue in the first place?

I thought that servitors were "independent thought-forms," meaning that they can pretty much do anything that they want in despite of their intended functions (after the magician stops using it for a while.)

There are different kinds of servitors. I generally go by the "Unintellegient-Dependent" (something like a psi ball, just made to perform a mission or two and then be done), "Intellegient-Dependent" (intellegient, but relies on you for energy to function and fulfill its mission), "Unintellegient-Independent" (like a psi ball with an independent energy source) and finally "Intellegient-Independent," which is essentially what you are talking about.

It isn't a chaos magick explanation, but one of my favorite articles on Servitors is here:
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,10859.0.html

Also, if you've stopped using a servitor and won't use it anymore or for a while, its best to just destroy it. Especially if its intellegient and/or independent. If you made it once, you can make it again later.



~:Shin:~

Intentionality is an extension of a predication of consciousness, or an intention is an extension of the perceptual experiences which play into how the thing that intends the object represents that particular object. In this, the servitor is how your mind represents this servitor, but in this, there is a connection between the quality of that archetype/concept and the quality assigned to that by the phenomenal experience of that person or group of people. To put it in another way, if one thinks about creating cat servitor, we have in this how that persons mind represents this cat. We have implicit associations, memories, feelings, knowledge, etc. linked to that representation which form the content, and thus the intention, of this thought. So, this servitor simply becomes a type of mirror of your unconscious given form versus a distinct being. This actually happens a lot in dreams. Your unconscious mind will take the form of a mythical being or a person you know in waking life where it seems as if it is a distinct character in your dream where it, like everything else in the dream, is simply an expression of your own subconscious mind.  

To put it simply, the servitor is not a being you created that relies on your energy to do certain functions, the servitor is you or it is part of a group psyche in which it is a manifestation of a group unconscious.

Also, there is no such thing as an independent thought-form. When you think a thought, you predicate the thought or the thought is instantiated by your mind; therefore, there is no separation between you and your thought. This connection makes it contain, in itself, a blue print of the whole or the implicit personality who thought it. Or, while the servitor may have distinct attribute differences, it still part of a bracket of entities called your thoughts where the awareness of the quality of this thought - the experience, is part of your consciousness.    

What makes a being conscious or not conscious is the capability to have an inner experience and not efficiency at doing a task. The creation of this thought-form is due to a representation of this thought within the experience of another being thereby making this experience the blueprint of the created being. In this, the being develops consciousness due it sharing your spark of consciousness. Since the existence of this being lies within the virtual blueprint of the information, and this blueprint of information lies on an abstract level of thought and conceptualization, then the construct simply is a projection of this upon a proposed substance, but it does not constitute the entire being, itself, since this being is contained in the conscious or unconscious experience of the people who instantiate it. What you describe, Shinichi, still sounds more like a construct versus a servitor.

Shinichi, since you like theology, think of the human mind as being associated to demiurge where the ability to create beings in such a fashion is simply the imbuing of that servitor with that which animates our psyche on higher metaphysical levels. Due to my practices as a sorcerer, all my spells become servitors when not explicitly declared. I use an ontological system, but this ontological system gains meaning due to the representation within my mind, thus, it is intimately linked to my experience of consciousness, or my minds accessibility to the quality of what this thing seems like to it. Their existence is tied to the existence of my consciousness; therefore, they need not depend on any sort of powering force, they simply need to depend on their continued existence within my consciousness where this depends on my existence, so long as I exist, so does it. This entity is able to impact the external world through the correlation of my consciousness with the physical world or the minds of others.  

This is a more organic view of servitors. Think of it like this. A cell contains within itself the blueprint for all other cells, so if that cell is destroyed, the form of the cell lives on in the genetic code where this genetic code is present in totally different organisms. So, we have a set of abstractions which extend past the material representation of the organism where the true identity of the organism is encoded in its genetic code which is not the cells, behaviors, structures, etc. that it codes for. Or, say we have a construct. A construct is what the information is encoded upon, so if you destroy the construct, the information to recreate it is not held within the construct; it is held within the intention which shaped it. This intention is an extension of a consciousness which represented the content of the intention; therefore, the conscious agent of a servitor is held within that virtual or conceptual realm where it is can be thought similarly as a projected image almost, thus, the construct can be compared to the body whereas the awareness can be compared to the mind where the mind exist on the level of abstraction upon which it was created which requires something to make sense of this representation and something to create the associative links between the form and the content. That being said, destroying the material base, whether explicitly physical or some purported metaphysical substance, does not git rid of it since the essence of its being is associated with that blueprint of information which exists on that level of abstractions/concepts which first starts within the mind of the person the same way that completely wiping out a species while keeping the genetics of the species intact ensures survival of that species within the genetic code of that organism. A truly rogue servitor is not a rogue construct; it is a rogue piece of your own mind or an invading mental archetype. The best way to avoid this is to have a highly disciplined mind.  

Self-Knowledge and "Inner Sense"; Lecture III: The Phenomenal Character of Experience

Here is some information on creating AI:

OntologiesThe Conceptual Frameworks and Organized Vocabularies for AI Programs

The key is to create an overarching domain of knowledge which describes the types of classes held within per particular parameters. These parameters act as a type of system of structural brackets which hold ways to reason about the entities held within. These are the system's perception. This method is actually used with such programs such as Pandora. An Ontology editor great for this is called Protégé. The issue is that the space that one is working within is essentially the virtual space of your consciousness, so each bracket has implicit states already there, or the bracket that we can call consciousness is a poised abstraction meant to reason about one's experiences held within. The servitor is essentially an entity contained within this poised morphism.

[K-Mentalz]

Why wouldn't you just program the servitor to not go rogue in the first place?

I thought that servitors were "independent thought-forms," meaning that they can pretty much do anything that they want in despite of their intended functions (after the magician stops using it for a while.)

There are different kinds of servitors. I generally go by the "Unintellegient-Dependent" (something like a psi ball, just made to perform a mission or two and then be done), "Intellegient-Dependent" (intellegient, but relies on you for energy to function and fulfill its mission), "Unintellegient-Independent" (like a psi ball with an independent energy source) and finally "Intellegient-Independent," which is essentially what you are talking about.

It isn't a chaos magick explanation, but one of my favorite articles on Servitors is here:
http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,10859.0.html

Also, if you've stopped using a servitor and won't use it anymore or for a while, its best to just destroy it. Especially if its intellegient and/or independent. If you made it once, you can make it again later.



~:Shin:~

Intentionality is an extension of a predication of consciousness, or an intention is an extension of the perceptual experiences which play into how the thing that intends the object represents that particular object. In this, the servitor is how your mind represents this servitor, but in this, there is a connection between the quality of that archetype/concept and the quality assigned to that by the phenomenal experience of that person or group of people. To put it in another way, if one thinks about creating cat servitor, we have in this how that persons mind represents this cat. We have implicit associations, memories, feelings, knowledge, etc. linked to that representation which form the content, and thus the intention, of this thought. So, this servitor simply becomes a type of mirror of your unconscious given form versus a distinct being. This actually happens a lot in dreams. Your unconscious mind will take the form of a mythical being or a person you know in waking life where it seems as if it is a distinct character in your dream where it, like everything else in the dream, is simply an expression of your own subconscious mind.  

To put it simply, the servitor is not a being you created that relies on your energy to do certain functions, the servitor is you or it is part of a group psyche in which it is a manifestation of a group unconscious.

Also, there is no such thing as an independent thought-form. When you think a thought, you predicate the thought or the thought is instantiated by your mind; therefore, there is no separation between you and your thought. This connection makes it contain, in itself, a blue print of the whole or the implicit personality who thought it. Or, while the servitor may have distinct attribute differences, it still part of a bracket of entities called your thoughts where the awareness of the quality of this thought - the experience, is part of your consciousness.    

What makes a being conscious or not conscious is the capability to have an inner experience and not efficiency at doing a task. The creation of this thought-form is due to a representation of this thought within the experience of another being thereby making this experience the blueprint of the created being. In this, the being develops consciousness due it sharing your spark of consciousness. Since the existence of this being lies within the virtual blueprint of the information, and this blueprint of information lies on an abstract level of thought and conceptualization, then the construct simply is a projection of this upon a proposed substance, but it does not constitute the entire being, itself, since this being is contained in the conscious or unconscious experience of the people who instantiate it. What you describe, Shinichi, still sounds more like a construct versus a servitor.

Shinichi, since you like theology, think of the human mind as being associated to demiurge where the ability to create beings in such a fashion is simply the imbuing of that servitor with that which animates our psyche on higher metaphysical levels. Due to my practices as a sorcerer, all my spells become servitors when not explicitly declared. I use an ontological system, but this ontological system gains meaning due to the representation within my mind, thus, it is intimately linked to my experience of consciousness, or my minds accessibility to the quality of what this thing seems like to it. Their existence is tied to the existence of my consciousness; therefore, they need not depend on any sort of powering force, they simply need to depend on their continued existence within my consciousness where this depends on my existence, so long as I exist, so does it. This entity is able to impact the external world through the correlation of my consciousness with the physical world or the minds of others.  

This is a more organic view of servitors. Think of it like this. A cell contains within itself the blueprint for all other cells, so if that cell is destroyed, the form of the cell lives on in the genetic code where this genetic code is present in totally different organisms. So, we have a set of abstractions which extend past the material representation of the organism where the true identity of the organism is encoded in its genetic code which is not the cells, behaviors, structures, etc. that it codes for. Or, say we have a construct. A construct is what the information is encoded upon, so if you destroy the construct, the information to recreate it is not held within the construct; it is held within the intention which shaped it. This intention is an extension of a consciousness which represented the content of the intention; therefore, the conscious agent of a servitor is held within that virtual or conceptual realm where it is can be thought similarly as a projected image almost, thus, the construct can be compared to the body whereas the awareness can be compared to the mind where the mind exist on the level of abstraction upon which it was created which requires something to make sense of this representation and something to create the associative links between the form and the content. That being said, destroying the material base, whether explicitly physical or some purported metaphysical substance, does not git rid of it since the essence of its being is associated with that blueprint of information which exists on that level of abstractions/concepts which first starts within the mind of the person the same way that completely wiping out a species while keeping the genetics of the species intact ensures survival of that species within the genetic code of that organism. A truly rogue servitor is not a rogue construct; it is a rogue piece of your own mind or an invading mental archetype. The best way to avoid this is to have a highly disciplined mind.  

Self-Knowledge and "Inner Sense"; Lecture III: The Phenomenal Character of Experience

Here is some information on creating AI:

OntologiesThe Conceptual Frameworks and Organized Vocabularies for AI Programs

The key is to create an overarching domain of knowledge which describes the types of classes held within per particular parameters. These parameters act as a type of system of structural brackets which hold ways to reason about the entities held within. These are the system's perception. This method is actually used with such programs such as Pandora. An Ontology editor great for this is called Protégé. The issue is that the space that one is working within is essentially the virtual space of your consciousness, so each bracket has implicit states already there, or the bracket that we can call consciousness is a poised abstraction meant to reason about one's experiences held within. The servitor is essentially an entity contained within this poised morphism.

Wow, I did not know all of this. I mean I knew that servitors only existed within the mind of it's creator, but I thought even though it did, it still had some external energetic form in which it would manifest into by the use of its creator(s) own energy. But, whatever. I recently started to learn about magick, and I know that I still have a lot to learn about it (that was the reason I started this experiment).

Since, now that I know that servitors cannot go rouge unless that I think that they do, there is no reason for me to continue this experiment. Anyway, thanks for all of you guys input. I learned a lot from it.

[Mech]

Well you just took the belief leap from psionics to parapsychology. Once you take the energy aspect out all you're left with is ESP and Psychokinesis, otherwise known as parapsychology. Psionics involves shields, psiballs, links, constructs, ect.

[Shinichi]

Flamedancer, your scientific perspective is very valuable, and I thank you for the interesting analogy with the demiurge. But you seem to keep forgeting that the system of magic that I am training in, as well as the system of psionics I developed out of it, both revolve around energetic AND mental philosophy--accepting things like the vital force and the elements as real and objective astral and etheric forces as well as mental concepts. Within this philosophy (and I don't mean the spirituality of Theurgy, just within the generalized energetic philosophy alone), it is entirely possible to create a servitor or construct that is both entirely seperate and entirely independent from the creator--an independent astral life form in its own right. And this isn't just my personal opinion, its the general philosophy of the tradition of hermetics which I am learning. And, as mech pointed out, energetic philosophy is also one of the main characteristics of general psionics today. I can not and will not say you are wrong in anything you said (because your not, and I always learn a lot from your posts), but please do remember this difference in our practices.

So far as the main topic of concious servitors and constructs going rogue, I completely agree with you in that the best way to prevent it is a disciplined mind, but not just because the servitor or construct is always entirely mental like you suggest. In all the stories I have heard of rogue servitors (and constructs), every single one involved an ambitious beginner who was not trained enough to properly create an independent servitor and bind it to his will. Never have I heard of an adept having trouble with a servitor, because even should the servitor of an adept rebel, an adept will have no trouble putting it back in its place.



~:Shin:~

[INFINITE LIGHT]

ABSOLUTE ROOT:

Know yourself, then you know your construct.

Self-control at base is the surest way to obtain control.

Remember, all magickal techniques are just evolution of the understanding that the power begins with us.

The power is in you first. The technique makes it second.

This must always be held fast or the true potential of a technique is not understood.


2cents ON DIFFERENT SYSTEMS:

Creators of magickal systems began with understanding the power was within them and then wondered how they could make repeatable and more powerful results. They looked at themselves, looked at the world and depending on their belief system and their level of connection with spirit in relationship to all three of these areas created a sytem.

The more sophisticated the system the more sophisticated the person who works within that system.

The true concepts and methodologies behind a system or the overall consciousness that created it is more important than the system itself and is held by it's creator.

You steal a scientists invention you have end results but his invention is just a manifestation of a level of consciousness reaching critical mass and manifesting through the invention. If he peaks again, he'll just make more.

A magickal system is no different.

People who learn systems in the beginning do not have the consciousness that the system it is created in., but those who work within a system adapt the consciousness of this system for success (school,basketball,videogames, magick, profit motive) and soon begin to understand to adapt in their own way.

There is a bid different between the master who's teachings being the sum of all that I have learned in life.

And the student who learns those teachings masterfully but is still a child so he may be strong in the ways of the system but not in life.
For to the master the system was his life expressed.
To the student it is the tools he will use to go through life.

(allagorical example in works of fiction to increase understanding)
To others Iron Man's suite is just a weapon. But to tony stark it is who he is for it represents a level of consciousness reaching critical mass and manifesting itself into the world.

In this way, I see no difference between him and any mutant in x-men. Consciousness is the greatest power. Spirit sees no difference in value between holding a consciousness that could be expressed through gardening or psychically linking with plants. Both are power and an expression of the formless into form (the very reason we are here).

The child born with power has not achieved the consciousness level of his power hardly able to control himself. But tony stark born and developed his specific consciousness based on mind evolved and honed it to a point of physical manifestation that transcends control. In this way, tony starks power exceeds that of a mutant child.

All talent is individuality. As such, as an individual all have talent.
In this way the abilities you are born with are a clue to the highest level of consciousness one can achieve.
Tony's is higher.


Again, allegory based on fictional characters to spice things up using this world's system of process. Using fiction to tell truths. Don't let denial of fictional story lines in relation to fluff get in way of understanding root idea.