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Author Topic: Could A perfect world ever exist?  (Read 2443 times)
codelyoko
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« on: June 18, 2009, 09:52:55 PM »

Could a perfect world ever exist? I'm talking no money, no tradeing just people doing things for each other out of the goodness of their heart... I mean, lets face it, you wouldn't be able to make half the stuff you would make today, because assembly lines wouldn't exist, and you couldn't buy cars you couldn't buy computers or almost anything.

Tell me what you think....
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 11:27:04 PM »

lmao
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 03:57:47 AM »

I think the most problems are cause that psychopatic people have to much power in this world.
Once they get some freaky idea (like spreading an epic failed virus) they just do it and it really scares me.
Though with the people around psioncs we are not good nor we are evil but we are rational and think twice before doing stuff because we are aware of what we are capable of.
But, I guess we can always dream about a perfect world even though I don't really believe it would ever happen.
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Shaam
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 06:10:09 AM »



A perfect world in the regard you are thinking of is a nice thought, however, from the eons of time, has never been that way.  It is still the survival of the fittest.
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Orbpael
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 06:44:04 AM »

Looking externally for perfection is..kinda maddening.

Only time I've felt right and in complete joy for a lack of outward perfection was in deep meditation.  if anything the out picturing of yourself and your beliefs are what defines the world  to you so  quite frankly from the external point of view the only way you'll see the world as perfect...even if you.. live in some..  star trek kinda utopia  Is if your nutty as a monk.

Anything more then that would be a purely spiritual discussion.
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 07:18:39 AM »

I think it wouold be based on spirituality tough.
In your own mind you can create things that are perfect for you, but we are all individuals and we all have diffrent perspectives on certain things.
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Orbpael
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 09:49:32 AM »

I'm sure if spiritually evolved we would be closer.  Theres so many different paths to the source that I'm sure it would be a matter of...  progress.

But for better or worse all we can do is explore ourselves and hope within is the way to perfection.
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psiworldadmin
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 10:36:36 AM »

No.  Evil is a certainty because humans are angry, greedy, needy, selfish.  As long as the basics of that remain, perfect is only a day dream.
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TheUnforgiven
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 11:52:27 AM »

No.  Evil is a certainty because humans are angry, greedy, needy, selfish.  As long as the basics of that remain, perfect is only a day dream.

I agree. But would also like to add people are always going to 'take advantage' of others. Its what they do. So, no a perfect world cannot exist beacuse its not in our nature.
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 11:58:15 AM »

A perfect world could exist, potentially. However each person's interpretation of "perfect" is different, and unless everyone could agree on a single definition, and agree to uphold that cause, it is very improbable that a perfect world could ever exist.
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 01:35:54 PM »

Well, in my opinion, this is a perfect world becuase it couldn't be any other way so I supppose what I'm saying is both yes and no.
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 01:42:42 PM »

In my opinion, to have a perfect World, there would have to be absolutely nothing to fight over. And this involved all aspects of Human life. As long as there are differences, there will always be a conflict. Culture, race, hair color, eye color, way of thinking, style of dressing, and among others that I do not want to bore you with by mentioning would have to be the same, in order to avoid conflict. As long as we are the way we are, a perfect world is not going to happen. We'd all have to be exactly alike. Well, that's just my opinion.
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2009, 02:38:28 PM »

Well, the main problem in this world, the cause of strife, is that it lacks abundance.
This lack is the main cause, the root of all problems in the world. There's a lack of physical abundance in resources and of power; this is why we have currency. There's a lack of mental abundance because of the physical lack, and yet, if we could overcome this, the physical lack would solve itself. Let me explain that part.

We fight physically, because there isn't enough readily usable resources in our environment*, and  there hasn't been, for thousands of years. This created a mindset of scarcity, and not of abundance; this meant that when one person ate, another went hungry, and so on. (This mindset, by the way, is one of the main problems people have that prevents them from getting laid, but that's another topic entirely.) This created the competition mindset in our collective psyche, and it had massive physical consequences.(Global warming, anyone?) Our mental self affects our physical self, and vice versa. What we believe to be true affects the world we live in, and the world we live in affects our mental beliefs. This is the system of power. It's a cycle most of us are familiar with. It's the good old a leads to b
which in turn beefs up a, and so on. This cycle has the power of change. It can chance just about anything. How? It means that our mind affects our actions, and the actions of billions is a massive wellspring of power, whether for good or ill.

To have a perfect world, the Heaven on Earth**, there needs to be deep identity change in all of us.
We need to defeat communism, consumerism, bla bla bla. They are all the same, because they are based on power. And that power is symbolized by currency. The dollar bill.
The dollar bill is a symbol of all that has to change for a perfect world to exist. There can be no more consumerism, for the fundamentals of consumerism condemns honesty. You can't make money in a store if you're honest enough to mention the store across the street has your wares for half the price. You can't afford to not dump petroleum into the rivers of Equador or some other country you had to take over, because there wouldn't be profit. This is the ugly truth about consumerism.***
To tell you the truth, the people most "conspiracy theorists" deem to be the "root of all evil"; those CEO's and those unknown, hidden evil rich men everyone imagines laughing at you is total bs. The "successful" people whom some of us believe to be the scary men behind the curtain are as dead stuck playing this rat game as the rest of us, and perhaps more. It's not all fun and games for them, either. Only fools and psychopaths believe that hurting another person won't hurt themselves inside. The wound will be equal and opposite, and will remain there, festering.^
The problem is not in the power of the few, but the beliefs of the men and women around us. The powerful are trapped in an eternal (and ultimately futile) attempt to maintain and increase their power. We are stuck trying to gain power. (Of course, not all of us.) This is the war of beliefs. Abundance vs scarcity. Peace vs war. This is the battle fought in the hearts and minds of men, and this is why the men of religion that supports peace can truly be considered warriors. This is the battle we have to win to have a perfect world.

Back to the topic: How to Make a Perfect World.
It's simple, really. We have to give up our differences and work together to create an utopia. It's really as simple as following a few basic rules, like the ten commandments, for example.
This is the insanely difficult part of this: to change the hearts and minds of every living person on the planet. Well, crap. It looks like the vatican had their work cut out for them when they first stated.....

To achieve this goal, we need to create physical abundance, to achieve scientific autonomy on the production line to free people from dull jobs, ect. It's all about letting go of old, crippling beliefs. Tell that to Big Oil, who's slowly inching towards a heart attack from fear that their billions of oil money will suddenly disappear on them overnight. Imagine living like that for the rest of your lifetime. Have some pity. Some of these people really are like disney movies, having pulled themselves success by their bootstraps.
For physical change, we need deep-level identity change in all human beings. We need to stop being so concerned about making money for ourselves and start thinking about how we can have abundance^*
We need to give up all our power, our money. Then, and only then, can we change the physical world.
The physical part will be simple. The wealth of concentrated human resources would be enough to make you pee your pants or/and bow down in awe. Think of every living person over the age of 25 utilizing their mental potential to solve one single problem. You would s*** bricks at the sight.
Of course, this requires that they all give up the (false) indicators of wealth and power and trust that this will all work out, and that the finished goal would mean all their money would be worthless.
That seems kinda difficult. But, it can be done.

Let's get started!
*Technically, of course there is. Is it going to ever get used without a mental change? Heck no.
**This is quite possibly the goal of organized religion.
***Well, actually, it's only the physical part.
^The opposite is true for the start of the human ego, and by ego, I mean the rational construct your mind makes to try to regain the self confidence it has somehow lost. Happens early on, usually.
^* = guys getting laid more, as well Tongue
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 02:44:15 PM by Notagh » Logged

wirath
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 02:22:36 AM »

nice post notagh, I do not agree with all of it. Such as lack of abundance, be agree with the rest.

I all the post you see that everybody talks about what conditions should be present in the world.
in my opinion their only a few necessary: that is non duality and ego free lives. Why? Because all the conditions flow out of these principles. While ego free is in my opinion also part of non duality, I split it up to make it more understandable.

concept meaning of duality in short:
there will always be evil if there is good
there will always be starvation if there is greed
some people will always be great while others are small
but also remember that there is always masculine and feminine

In lifestyle this would result in:
take only what you need.
act toward others as it is you.
if you are content than you will be rich
etc..

So how to change the world? start changing yourself and than help others.


tip: Read the book tao te ching, understand the words, try to understand the meaning.

.
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David
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 02:46:28 AM »

I'm sorry, Notagh.
Just posting my oppinion here and you should lucky enough that I post here. I don't really enjoy a 'psionic-politics' or aka debators. Grin

You can't make world perfect or how to make it perfect, but you could make it feels perfect.
Perfect means nothing to add more...in other side, it still not perfect. There must be a contra for it being 'perfect.

Even a bad need goodies to win. That's the point. A darkness need light in order to become dark.


there will always be evil if there is good
there will always be starvation if there is greed
some people will always be great while others are small
but also remember that there is always masculine and feminine

In lifestyle this would result in:
take only what you need.
act toward others as it is you.
if you are content than you will be rich
etc..

So how to change the world? start changing yourself and than help others.

We need to understand an pointed subject before we decide it. I don't think we can make 'it' perfect rather than make it 'better'

~namaste
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Notagh
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 07:30:25 PM »

When I say a "perfect world", I mean a world of abundance.
And by a world of abundance, I mean a world in which technology gives every human being on earth everything they could possibly need without needing an exchange of power to provide it for them. (No currency, obviously.)

So, using my definition of the perfect world, yes, we can make it perfect, Secretus.

@wirath: Way too boring for me. Some people can be content with changing themselves. I can't.
I want to change the world, and let's see if I can succeed.
I remember a quote I found online, I forgot who said it, but it went like this:
"You can never be sure that you're going to change the world, but you can be sure to change yourself."

So I'll try to change the world, shape it to my vision, and if I fail, then at least I changed myself.

"du·al·ism  (d-lzm, dy-)
n.
1. The condition of being double; duality.
2. Philosophy The view that the world consists of or is explicable as two fundamental entities, such as mind and matter.
3. Psychology The view that the mind and body function separately, without interchange.
4. Theology
a. The concept that the world is ruled by the antagonistic forces of good and evil.
b. The concept that humans have two basic natures, the physical and the spiritual."

Don't take me wrong, but I agree with this definition. Not yours, for some reason, though.
Oh, did I say that my concept of the perfect world had total peace in it? Sorry. My concept of the perfect world is only a world in which every single person is free to make whatever choice they want, and have the resources to give it a shot. That's it, really.

Kindof hard to explain.

Edit: Oh, you mean you think the main key is non-duality.
Please refer to my article, the part about deep identity change. Let me clarify.
I want a world in which there peace, and to achieve this, I need two things.
A mental and physical change of the entire human race and its environment.
This is the goal. To achieve this, I suggested implementing (on medium scale) a mindset of abundance, which is non-duality and non-ego, having pure self-esteem and all that. I think this is the part you failed to comprehend, and I apologize for not clarifying that part.

"
So how to change the world? start changing yourself and than help others.
"
 is the part where we start to disagree. You suggested a mental change, and we agree. You stopped there. I go on, into the environment of physical abundance. Where people have, using the mindset of abundance (we agree with that one) to create technologies of abundance, that resulted in a world of abundance. In this world, we have no need for currency, no need for menial, repetitive jobs, and all that other good stuff because we had technological developments coming from a mindset of abundance and win-win. This will accelerate scientific developments considerably, I'm guessing phrasing out of fossil fuels in 5 years or less. If we can implement mental changes on medium scale, and add some physical incentives to make it all possible, than the rest of the world will follow suit. We've been socially conditioned for this conflict, and not for win-win. We have this positive and pure mindset going around, then the rest of the world will follow suit. BUT, There still needs to be physical changes to make that all possible.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 07:46:30 PM by Notagh » Logged

wirath
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2009, 03:34:11 AM »

I first want to state that duality and dualism are two different things.
In last post I mean the concept of opposites, not 2 different entities.

I don't think that a world of abundance comes from technical advancements and externalities. I my opinion it comes from the internal aspects of beings. A poor man can still live in abundance, while a rich man doens't. The point is that if there is not that mental change the world won't be any better. The effective physical changes for "a world of abundance" will only come when people change first.

still the perfect world is a world with peace. But also where people know when they have enough. If everybody takes only what he needs, we live in a world of abundance. That is my opinion.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 03:36:38 AM by wirath » Logged

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Notagh
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2009, 04:07:32 AM »

I first want to state that duality and dualism are two different things.
In last post I mean the concept of opposites, not 2 different entities.

I don't think that a world of abundance comes from technical advancements and externalities. I my opinion it comes from the internal aspects of beings. A poor man can still live in abundance, while a rich man doens't. The point is that if there is not that mental change the world won't be any better. The effective physical changes for "a world of abundance" will only come when people change first.

still the perfect world is a world with peace. But also where people know when they have enough. If everybody takes only what he needs, we live in a world of abundance. That is my opinion.


And you still don't get my point! I wholeheartedly agree with you!
I, however, am advocating giving every good part of a rich man's life to the poor man who lives in abundance.  The rich and prosperous man who lives in abundance being the average joe.
The perfect perfect world.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 04:08:40 AM by Notagh » Logged

wirath
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2009, 08:41:09 AM »

Ok I understand,

But don't you agree that giving it to the poor man, requires a mental shift (we already agreed on) This is for both parties, the rich and the poor. In practise you can't distribute other people money. So to make the world perfect, you have to change the people from the inside. If they change, they will help in their own way, by giving money, help or support. This by just unconditionally love each other.
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2009, 09:14:36 AM »

And since you can't really change anyone else, this motion would have to start with yourself, people would just have to catch on.
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